It’s actually somewhat amusing that attempts have even been made recently by the White House to present Mike Pence as anything other than what he is and always has been, a dyed in the wool homophobe, who opposed gay rights legislation from his earliest days as a congressman. You may recall the big to-do recently, when Pence and Mother went to Ireland to have lunch with the gay Prime Minister and his spouse, and how that was touted by Pence’s token gay aide as proof of what a great liberal open minded guy Mike Pence really is. Nobody bought it, and after this exposition from CNN’s K-File, nobody is going to::
Pence argued in the 1990s that, unlike protections for African Americans, homosexuals choose or learn to be gay and was part of a “grassroots-generated movement for recognition of homosexual rights” nationwide.–“Once you identify homosexuals as a minority, then by definition they would need to be afforded constitutional protection,” Pence added. “Up to this point, our legal tradition in America has drawn a line over those things. I do not choose whether I am a black American … the great vast majority of the psychological community says homosexuality at a very minimum is a choice by the individual, and at the maximum, is a learned behavior.”–The American Psychological Association said in 1992 that data did not support the view that homosexuality was a choice and studies at the time in the 1990s suggested homosexuality was biological and genetic.–The arguments made in the 1990s by Pence would echo those he later emphasized when he ran for Congress in 2000 when his platform protested extending civil rights protections to gay Americans. But the 1990s comments show for the first time Pence calling homosexuality a choice and offer a clearer view into Pence’s view on gay Americans at the time.–As president of the conservative think tank Indiana Policy Review Foundation, Pence opposed a vote by the city council of Lafayette, Indiana, to make itself the first city in the state to add sexual orientation to its anti-discrimination law. Designating gay Americans worthy of such protections under the law, Pence said, would open “a Pandora’s Box of legal rights and legal difficulties” and was part of grassroots movements by gay activists for increasing their rights.
Just keep thumping the Bible, Mike, with the rest of the fundies and hold the gays down. Or, try to. Pence is a dinosaur and the irony is that he’s part of the group that’s going to be history soon, not the gays that he seeks to persecute and deny basic rights, like employment and housing to. What a great day it will be when the last Pence-ling goes extinct — at least in political life.
Even the conservatives on the SCOTUs who wrote in the gay marriage case, Roberts and Scalia, noted that they personally had no real issue with gays marrying (thus recognizing rights. The conservatives – or at least Scalia and Roberts, said that states should and were passing the laws themselves.
Only problem with that argument is that it is either a fundamental right for all Americans, or it isn’t. What one would end up with is a disaster whereby 10 states will refuse for 2-3 generations, and gay couples in that state will have to go outside to another state to marry, then hope that their state gives full faith and credit to the gay marriage state.
Roberts and Scalia weren’t bible thumping (I almost wrote bible “humping” — maybe that too) fundies, like Pence. He just loves the fire and brimstone and the sanctimony. It suits his shallow intellect and vapid personality.
I just wish someone would push back on these idiots who push the kind of lunacy about “choosing to be gay” by asking, “And, so, when exactly did you *choose* to be straight?”
The only thing one “chooses” is HOW EXACTLY to live out being gay or straight. Ironically, THAT particular choice is exactly the same for gay people as it is for straight people although, for straights, centuries of religious indoctrination have made it much more acceptable for straight people to express their particular choice.
I actually recall an argument made by leaders of the “Religious Right” during the height of the ’80s AIDS epidemic that they (meaning the “Religious Right” community) would stop being anti-gay if gays would essentially “act” more straight which was basically becoming more monogamous rather than indulging in promiscuity (of course, when gays started following through and wanted to have legal recognition of their monogamous relationships, we all know what happened there). This was slightly before all the televangelists started getting caught playing around with secretaries and indulging in other extramarital affairs.
I’ve read columns by fundie pastors arguing that LGBTQs are much, much less than 1% of the population (I think the number they used was 0.004%), therefore they don’t need protection because there are so few. Of course they presented no evidence or sources for their numbers.
When I discuss this with my university classes I suggest the range is 3 to up to 10 percent lgb. and around .%5 percent trans,IQIA or about 1 in 10 people you meet are lgb whether they tell you that or not. and about 1 in 200 are trans. This is based on some pretty credible surveys. Whatever the statistics. I love all the lgbtq people in my family. I think they all deserve equal protections/rights/ etc/. No one in my family chose to be anything including myself and no one needs to be cured of anything.
I personally know probably 100 or more gay people, as well as 8 male>female trans people and three female>male trans people. My number may be high because I am in the arts, but they’re everywhere.
The logical problem with that assertion is that number has nothing to do with entitlement to civil and human rights.
Indeed, Joseph, there is only one true choice in this life: be yourself or pretend to be someone else. The first option is the only meaningful one you can make, regardless of the pain that comes with it.
Never mind the televangelists. Fundamentalists have no business condemning promiscuity outside the church while their own house is such a mess. Although Jesus had no specific comment about gays, he did say this about what is presumed to be straight people:
“I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Also, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” Also, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries someone else, she commits adultery” and other similar comments.
The divorce rate among fundamentalists is about the same as the general population. The rate of second marriages is also very high. Let fundamentalists remove the plank from their own eye first.
Not all, and probably not most of the hard core gay bashers in the closet repressing their urges. However a startling number of these conservative wackos turn out to be gay. When I see pictures of Pence standing/sitting there listening to Trump with that adoring gaze I’m always reminded of Nancy Reagan’s adoring gaze at ole Ronnie. IOW Pence seems so enthralled I can’t help but wonder…
Your suspicions are my suspicions, Denis. Andrew Vachss called it for this type: “pathetic freaks trying to smash what they see in the mirror.”
What does it matter what sexually preference a person is? All rights under the Constitution belongs to everyone here in the USA. It’s only a problem for some who claim to be Christians. Yes, they have the right to hate anyone they want. But they don’t have the right to take away anybody’s rights that they themselves enjoy. It shouldn’t be such a big issue only that this religion wants to discriminate but they have been given the right to do so by the givernment. That’s the bigger problem!
Yes, all Americans are entitled to their American civil rights simply by virtue of being an American. All humans are entitled to their human rights simply by virtue of being human.
So there gay and lesbians in this country. It’s there choice to persue happiness in any way they want. DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMINATION!!