Constitutional law expert Laurence Tribe says that Nancy Pelosi is unclear about what the constitution says about impeachment and need not worry about the “stonewall” of Mitch McConnell and the Republican-controlled Senate, who continue to “shirk their duty.” Listen to this 1:36 clip. This is educational.
.@tribelaw says House Democrats don't need the Senate to reach a conclusion on impeachment. #ctl #p2 #amjoy pic.twitter.com/xJc8culuS5
— PoliticusUSA (@politicususa) June 8, 2019
“His forehead would be stamped with the Scarlet ‘I’. He would bear the mark of Cain when he goes into the election. I think it’s a silly prospect to say that he would be strengthened and he could claim vindication. He could always claim vindication. That’s his style.” That’s true enough. Trump is the man, after all, who teed up by Bill Barr, concluded that the Mueller report fully exonerated him when it did the opposite.
Impeachment may be the only way to deal with this menace.
First it was Trump can't win.
Then the Electors will stop him.
Then the GOP will.
Then the #MuellerReport will.
Then the unredacted Mueller report will.
Then Mueller speaking will.
Then Mueller testifying will.
Then SDNY will.Let's stop waiting for a savior and #ImpeachTrumpNOW
— Lindsey Boylan (@LindseyBoylan) July 19, 2019
I understand Pelosi’s hesitation and I agree with her political instincts about Trump becoming empowered. Tribe says that Trump would “bear the mark of Cain.” In any normal political process, that would absolutely constitute a handicap. However, in this no holds barred slug fest that the election is shaping up to be, it is possible that the more fuel that is thrown Trump’s way, the more he’ll make himself the martyr and dominate the news. That is probably Pelosi’s thinking. But bear in mind what Tribe said about the American people not being as stupid as he thinks. Televised impeachment hearings, where all the facts are aired and Fox News is limited in its spin, might be exactly what we need to effect a political cleanse of this toxic administration. This is worth considering. What say you all?
Impeach
That may be the way to go. The more that I think about it, televised impeachment hearings are our best option to expose Trump’s corruption in front of all of the people.
This has been my view all along. That’s what swayed America in Nixon’s case.
After the investigation into the campaign was ended with no one charged, my opinion of Nancy Pelosi has hardened.
In general, the endless foot-dragging is maddening! We’re only a year and a half from the election. First was that seemingly interminable wait for the nothing burger Mueller report, then 3 months to get him to testify! Instead of supoenas right off the bat they played it safe and “invited” people to testify, which they all, of course, rejected.
No matter what plans are suggested, we find out it can’t be done.
What a broken system! I’m coming to the end of my rope.
I’m pretty much at the end of my rope as well and I agree that the system is broken. If we don’t impeach Trump, it will only serve to normalize his behavior. This is a tough shot to call, but I think that impeachment is indicated and that televising it is the best way to go. I don’t know if just shining it on and waiting for 2020 is going to get the job done. I’m leaning towards impeachment right now, after hearing Tribe.
I like Nancy Pelosi, and I respect and trust her political acumen. However, I think that she should take professor Tribe’s advice, and get moving immediately. The FACT that the house can reach a conviction result on its own ( even if it is a conviction without “teeth”) is news to me (and I suspect many others). I like Professor Tribe’s analysis..A LOT!
I’m with you. What appeals to me about this is the opportunity to get all the facts before the people before the election. This is a good idea and should be seriously considered.
Impeachment is the indictment. The senate phase is the trial.
I am seeing that Trump continues to, “test the waters”, and from one day to the next, builds up his library of Constitutionally WRONG stunts …. comments by people that ,”know things and complain”, are vaporized by Barr/McConnell, (the do-wrong himself), and doubling down is never enough for trump, he continues to attack, and embarrass those that would look after and protect the natural diversity of our, (used to be), internationally respected country …
Trump, not only has stained the WH Oval office, he has flooded the whole WH with toxic excrement, every photo-op rant he presents …. examples: claims the, “squad hates America”, “the democrats hate America”, when in fact, neither one is based on facts or even common sense … he is taking his plot right from the actions of Goebbels himself, even has accelerated that Hitler booster’s technique by sharing these stupid attacks by posting to the whole world of observers … at once with the web, Hitler had his needs, did not care about anybody but his own great plan, the difference is the exposure area desired by Hitler/Goebbels was focused on Germany and the citizenry THERE had to be controlled …
Trump can’t see beyond his getting longer nose … he is already off those abused rails he WAS on for awhile, the Republicans have given up their responsibility to corral this madman, simply because, THEY themselves followed DJT into the box canyon, some may have first hand experience with Trump/Epstein frolics, and are staying quiet to help divert Mr. Schiff and others … Others have begun to see how really hot a potato DJT has become … his rants and supremely stupid un-American attacks on those in Congress or the others that dare to cross the HIMSELF, Trump …
I have come to know how terrible a person DJT has been from statements and charges of rape and abuse over time that solidified recently with his video, playing grab and pinch, in a room full of young women AND Epstein …
THIS kind of extremely revealing evidence coupled with the pilot and his unloaded 28 girls at Mar-a-Lago for private party DJT/Epstein only …Trump is a VIRAL criminal sexual predator … he thinks it is a Big joke, “locker room talk”, I’ve been around 73 years, and never once heard about someone, “reaching in and grabbing pussy because you are a star”, nor for any other reason.
I guess Trump gets the giggles and his silly grins when he talks about these offenses, because to this poor excuse for a president he IS GUILTY, only if we try him in the National Court of public opinion when actual evidence is shown by public demonstration and revelation that can’t be blocked by Barr and the Republicans … in a complete and thorough Impeachment investigation … anyone else brought into the net with Trump … too bad, especially if they share the same last name …. Stand back, this IS BIG and the flying shit IS GOING to be a storm …
Amen to that!
I envision a political commercial saying:
“Trump is betting that the American people are dumb and not intelligent enough to understand that he broke the law after the House found him guilty and impeachable for ……. -and now wants you to absolve him as above the law. DON’T let him, vote for “me”.”
I also envision someone in the Democratic Party with the skills set of the law character Dr. Jason Bull of the “Bull” series on CBS manning the social media and marketing department.
Now is that too much to ask?
I understand Tribe’s position. My hesitation with his strategy is the possibility that we don’t really end up with the House voting impeach and the Senate doing nothing – I’m concerned that McConnell will use his power in the Senate to completely undermine the House position and successfully paint the entire thing as a circus.
It’s all risk vs reward, I guess, and I leave that calculation up to Speaker Pelosi and other Dem leaders. But they might be thinking that the best case scenario with impeach is swaying 2 points of the electorate in our direction, while the worst case is swaying 10 points away. Thinking about it like that, and modeling it mathematically, we might end up assuming that the mean result is +4R, while there’s only a 20% chance to end up in +D territory.
That’s an oversimplification, but I think it illustrates where the more cautious legislators are coming from.
However, even if this logic holds for impeachment, it definitely seems to me that there are plenty of other investigations where there is less risk and possibly more reward. I’m not sure why we don’t see these moving forward. There could be reasonable explanations, but I don’t see why this is all moving so slow. It seems like a Mueller subpoena should have come down two days after the report…things like that.
Impeach the Bas….
Tribe, for all his “legal expertise” (and despite my own lack of said expertise) is a complete moron.
Ursula wrote “bear in mind what Tribe said about the American people not being as stupid as he thinks” and yet, does no one remember how UTTERLY STUPID the American people were with regards to Hillary’s “emails?” As for the belief that the impeachment hearings would be “aired,” this is 2019; the networks are NOT going to waste hours upon hours of valuable programming to air a bunch of Congressional hearings–that was the whole reason why C-SPAN was created.
And “where all the facts are aired” is one of the sillier things I’ve ever read, especially when followed by “and Fox News is limited in its spin.” Ursula, have you COMPLETELY ignored the last quarter century of how the “news cycle” works? Have you COMPLETELY forgotten how the ACA was gutted BECAUSE the right-wing worked overtime to dominate the news coverage? And, of course, there’s the influence we’ve all read about regarding the Sinclair Broadcasting “prepared commentary” being forced on ALL that network’s LOCAL news casts.
I’m sorry, but this country IS populated by a vast array of sheep, ready to believe ANY piece of crap the right-wing spews.
If the American people *really* aren’t as stupid as Tribe thinks, why did Trump win? Yes, yes, the electoral college played a part but that body works as a reflection of the largest number of voters in each separate state. And, for better or worse, Trump won a majority of states. (It’s also worth noting that Bill Clinton’s victory in 1992 was achieved in a similar manner–he won a plurality of the votes in a number of states, so he got those states’ electoral votes. Of course, I don’t recall reading too many people complaining about Trump’s electoral win whining that George H W Bush was “robbed” in 1992.) And it’s NOT like people didn’t already know what kind of person Donald Trump was. That “Access Hollywood” tape came out before the election and Trump’s voters ultimately DID NOT CARE. Just like people get warned that the Supreme Court is always a potential concern with every presidential election, and 95% of voters just shrug it off–even DEMOCRATIC voters.
As long as impeachment doesn’t actually remove a President from office, without a truly hostile Congress facing him, it won’t do any good. Trump, after being impeached by the House and being found not guilty by the Senate, will simply use that as fund-raising fodder by his loyalists and will just be used by him to “prove” his accusation that he was the victim of a “witch hunt” and that 45% will vote for him again.
And Democratic voters will pull their usual “stay at home” routine because they will feel “failed by their leaders” (and, especially if the Democratic nominee isn’t 150% “pure” enough).
Everyone needs to remember this: There has NEVER been an impeachment of a President during his FIRST term without a TRULY hostile Congress facing him. Andrew Johnson faced a unified “Radical Republican” Congress which didn’t trust the Southerner because he was impeding their incredibly punitive treatment of the defeated Confederate states. After a resolution calling for impeachment was passed by 126-47 (with 17 not voting), he was impeached by the House on 11 articles (including a couple that could easily apply to Trump today–notably about making speeches intended to diminish the Congress and also bringing disgrace by his words and actions) but, in a Senate with 54 members, he was found guilty by only 35 (36 were needed to remove him from office). As for Nixon (who resigned rather than face impeachment) and Clinton (who was impeached), both happened during their second terms and couldn’t run again, regardless of the outcome of the process.
I believe you may be hammering on Ursula a little hard here … she asked for your opinion about the article and you are attacking her with rather strong language, I submitted my view and, now, we should hear your solutions/views as well, not a tirade against other commentators, including questions of their intelligence … you’ve listed a number of reasons that anything in the post will not work against the Republicans/Trump, what are your solutions and workarounds that Democrats could/should be doing, might be a better position to take …
The basic premise here is, is it a good idea to use a preparation for impeachment to put all the dirty laundry from the Trump clan out for reference as direct charges are flung at the WH a little later, not even planning on a successful Impeachment after that? I think this process is a way to make public all the things Trump has in his back pack and it is a process, just out of the reach of Barr/Trump and the Republicans to ask/get answers they need ….
Now is your chance to lay out your winning strategy for the Democrats …
I’m all for impeachment but not if it’s going to just get an indictment in the House while the Repigs in the Senate find him “not” guilty. I have to agree with Rory on his take.
I’ve said for months now that the better way to go forward is to wait for Mueller’s testimony in the House and for the investigations by Nadler, Schiff and the rest wind their way through the courts fighting Barr and the administration to get access to all the pertinent information they’re lawfully able to obtain.
If the Mueller testimony does what we believe it’ll do and show to the public Trumps criminality beyond a reasonable doubt then by all means bring impeachment proceedings forward.
But we better be damn sure that the sentiment by a good majority of the public, like 75%, want it too, or like Rory states it’ll sure as hell probably backfire on us when Trump screams to high heaven it’s proof he’s innocent when the Senate does nothing, because it’ll supercharge his racist base and likely stunt our turnout.
The most important aspect of this is to educate the populus about Trump. At this stage of the administration, impeachment must begin, followed by removal and indictment.