It’s been over a week now. WHY? Why hasn’t the DC Circuit issued their ruling? Worse, since the hearing, or at least since the day after the news has has nothing to say about it. Yes, I did a search and lots of stories on January 9, and a couple on Jan. 10. Since then? Nothing. Crickets. Just like the DC Court of Appeals. WTF?
Waiting for January 9 was worse for me than when I was a kid waiting on Christmas morning to rip open my presents. However, the big day arrived and I listened intently to the oral arguments, as well as the commentary from legal experts that followed. Even though I’m not a lawyer I’m aware that sometimes during an appellate hearing some judge’s questioning can wind up being misleading. What I mean is that they might seem to be attacking one side or the other’s position but they actually are just testing them.
For those who don’t follow how legal stuff works by the time appellate judges (including SCOTUS) hear oral arguments they’ve read briefs/filings from both sides along with supporting exhibits. Sometimes they even accept filings, “fried of the court” briefs from third parties. That’s why the summary the lawyer speaking for each side never actually gets to present their summary. The judges/Justices start in, sometimes before the first sentence is read with questions. It doesn’t mean any of them have decided how they will ultimately rule, but again from the questions you can get a pretty good idea which way they are leaning.
It was clear from the get-go the panel that heard Trump’s appeal in DC was skeptical of his claim. He/his lawyer started out in a deep hole. I didn’t need any legal expert doing punditry to tell me they dug their own hole deeper. Hell, they used dynamite and a backhoe to dig to freaking China. Remember that crap about ordering Seal Team 6 to assassinate political opponents? And Trump’s lawyer saying (how did he ever keep a straight face?) that unless the Senate convicted him on an article of impeachment for it Trump couldn’t be held accountable in criminal court?
Sorry, but all three of the judges took Team Trump out to the legal woodshed for an old-fashioned whupping. There is nothing in the law or the Constitution to support Trump’s claim of Presidential Immunity. The judges knew it going into oral arguments, and if anything their questions were designed to see just how crazy Team Trump would get. It’s rare but sometimes an appellate court will render a decision without even bothering to hold oral arguments. THIS should have been one of those times. But it wasn’t and the judges gave Team Trump miles of rope with which to hang themselves and they sure as hell did so.
Everyone knew as soon as the hearing concluded that Trump would lose. Ok, so there were a couple of issues, technical stuff to sort out but again the judges knew all this well before Jan. 9. Each probably had a working draft of an opinion that day but wanted to hear arguments before sitting down and crafting a final opinion. That could have been done in a day. Two at most.
So. WHAT THE F**K IS TAKING SO LONG?
I’m thinking it’s exactly what I feared (and said more than once) ahead of time. I recently heard a pundit (Glenn Kirschner?) refer to the DC Court of Appeals as the “Junior Varsity” for SCOTUS. Just serving on it makes most who do get on the list of potential nominees whenever there’s an opening on SCOTUS. It hears the lion’s share of the most important cases. And boy oh boy are these assholes taken with their “August Status.” A different panel dicked around for six freaking weeks before finally upholding (albeit in a narrower version) District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan’s gag order. This was a different panel of judges but they’re all cut from the same cloth.
They think they are just sooooooooo effing important and by god the rest of us and for that matter possibly the fate of our country can just STFU and wait until they have sated their outsized egos and deigned to “honor” us with a ruling. In the meantime, every day, Every Single Day they sit there making us all wait is a day lost. A day that puts Trump one day closer to his dream of getting the DC trial postponed. Maybe he hopes until after the election. Or at least until he’s racked up so many delegates in the primary the GOP won’t have a chance up dumping him at the convention.
Every day these assholes wait is another day of damage to our country. And THEY DON’T CARE!!!!!
Frankly, as far as I’m concerned it’s time for mass demonstrations outside the building where the DC Court of Appeals sits. Every day. DEMANDING they get off their f**king high horses and issue their ruling! (And keep it up so the full court doesn’t dick around for another few weeks or longer deciding whether to hold an en banc hearing)
This should already be sitting over with SCOTUS, who if the ruling is as strong as judge Chutkan’s original ruling denying immunity will decline cert. They will take a pass and things will be back in judge Chutkan’s hands and the case can get back on track.
I’m furious beyond measure (and fighting like hell to minimize cursing in this) at both the appellate judges and the media for not by now making a point of asking WHAT THE HELL IS TAKING SO LONG?
It seems they care more about appearances than the common good. Maybe they’re just scared to bring the cult down on them. Either way, they are close to being obstructionists. Nice guys like Gore get robbed quickly. Evil killers get all the leeway in the world. America…that word is a mixed bag at best. Seven years and counting…
Denis, did you ever stop to think that the very reason these folks are taking their time is the proverbial double-edged sword of being on the DC court?
Do you not think that these folks want to make sure they dot every “i” and cross every “t” before issuing a ruling since the next (only) step above them is the Supreme Court itself?
If, as you note, they’re looking towards an eventual nomination to SCOTUS and, after some of the numbskullery we’ve seen from recent SCOTUS decisions, they want a relatively easy pass up to SCOTUS, they’re certainly not going to just rule as hastily as you (and some others) would like. I know it’s frustrating. But, if you think you’re frustrated, imagine how the attorneys in the case feel. (Well, I imagine Trump’s team are a bit less frustrated since the delays just translate to more billable hours; of course, they’ve got to be a bit delusional if they think they’ll see that money.)
We are literally in uncharted legal territory. NO OTHER former President has ever actually thought their executive status continued even an hour after they left office; then again, every other former President came through the usual political process and understood the office’s responsibilities and limitations. Trump is literally the first person who became President with absolutely NO prior government or military experience. Even Eisenhower (the last person elected to the office with no prior “political” experience) knew how the government’s power structure operated. We’ve heard the White House horror stories of staff haven’t to rummage through trash cans to collect, and piece together, papers that were LEGALLY supposed to go to the National Archives; Trump was NEVER put in a position before 2016 where he was actually subject to LAWS so he never changed how he behaved.
Sometimes the wheels of justice turn slowly (just speak to the family of Emmett Till or the victims of the Tuskegee experiment) but do you really want the DC Court to make a judgment that opens itself up to a “review” by SCOTUS and drag out the proceedings? Or would you prefer a judgment that’s so bulletproof that even Thomas and Alito can’t find any justification to take an appeal? (Yes, Trump’s people can always appeal–as can the prosecution–but the ruling has to be so flawed that SCOTUS would have a reason to take it on. And such a flawed decision will follow every single member of the DC Court that signs off on it or even files a concurring opinion.)
Yes, I’m aware of the importance of the decision and the desire to get it right. On the other hand as I said they had literally WEEKS to peruse the original decision from judge Chutkan, and the filings from both sides. I acknowledge I’m neither a lawyer or a Constitutional scholar but the Constitution itself is pretty goddamned straightforward on this. If one cares to look for other information such as minutes of floor debate during the Constitutional Convention, letters between delegates and the too-hyped Federalist Papers (most of which were written by Hamilton and Madison – and not even published until most of the states had ratified – the whole thing was to convince NY state to go ahead and ratify but by then the Constitution was pretty much a done deal. And again, since the third intended contributor – there were only three who were in on the whole idea – was ill during this time it’s really just two guys, one of whom wasn’t even a fucking delegate!) there’s not much to go on. The issues of what’s known as Executive Privilege and later on immunity are constructs created AFTER the Constitution went into effect.
Yes, there is case law on both as both Executive Privilege has been litigated numerous times but there’s fairly well established precedent on it. CIVIL immunity has also been litigated and more than once in the last couple of decades and it too has been decided as in it doesn’t exist and yes, SCOTUS has weighed in. When it comes to criminal immunity going back to Nixon and SCOTUS unanimously ruling that in a criminal investigation even a President had to obey a prosecutor’s subpoena what precedent there is indicates that no, there is no such thing for even a sitting President to avoid legal liability for criminal actions. Much less a former President although it was understood both then and since that once out of office all bets were off. Had Nixon not been pardoned by Ford he WOULD have been criminally prosecuted. Everyone knew it at the time and everyone, even those conservative Justices have acknoledged since that was the case.
Trump/his lawyers have created a crap legal/Constitutional theory out of thin air and have so far successfully ABUSED the court system pushing it. Judge Chutkan’s original opinion (which didn’t take her that long to craft and she has nowhere near the resources the appellate judges have) was with the exception of Team Trump and a handful of RWNJ media fluffers “bulletproof” to use your term. Every credible legal expert said so and if you recall even prior to oral arguments the discussion was about how screwed Trump was AND the main issue was how quickly we’d wind up with a ruling (whether SCOTUS took the case or not) and back in judge Chutkan’s courtroom. Would it be in time to start a trial in March.
So I’m sticking to my guns. The appellate judges knew goddamn well Trump argument was a giant pile of shit, that the decision being appealed was “bulletproof” and there was little for them to consider – but they still had to go through the motions. There’s no reason, NONE they couldn’t have given up some time during the holidays to read the filings and have their clerks help them double check for any case law/precedent or dig into the founder’s intent – and had oral arguments before the end of 2023 or certainly in early January a full week before they did. AND as I said had a rough draft of their ruling that would only need some polishing. They could have ruled the next fucking day. But if they wanted to “make it look good”, to minimize Trump whining they “rushed to judgement” they could have held off a few days. Not that it would matter. They could take until after the election and if he loses it they could issue their ruling and he’d STILL bitch and whine about them “rushing to judgement!”
I still think SCOTUS has no intention of getting involved. But given how important this case is and how it could literally determine whether we still have a Constitutional Republic this time next year a few days to “dot every I and cross every T is MORE than enough.
No, these ASSHOLES are simply showing off how important they are, playing “look at me in all my mighty ivory tower splendor.”
“fried” of the court denis? We have chicken parts chiming in? lol. Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
Oops. OTOH some of the shit that came in on Trump’s behalf was from fried minds!
I am beyond frustrated at waiting for an answer, but there was a clerk that youtube channel Meidastouch mentioned to the court’s judges requesting some documents. They do at least appear to be diving deep to be sure everything is fully covered, thus making it easy for this case to not get any attention from the supreme court. They also couldn’t rule on it any sooner or yes, the maga morons out there would say they did rush to a decision that we all know they had before the hearing even took place. Last but not least their answer will be historic and written in all of the history books (that will most likely also be put on the idiots ban list), and with the plethora of media lawyer analysts, other judges, and educated folks in general, I would expect they want the wording to be a perfect as possible.
That said,,, HURRY UP!!!
Without knowing more about what you said about the judges gathering more documents I won’t speak to that part of what you said. Maybe it’s necessary and maybe not for them to do so. However when it comes to the part about MAGA’s outrage over a decision coming too quickly and claiming it was “rushed” I stand firmly by my original contention. The could take three months, six months or even longer (including until after the November election) to rule and Trump/MAGA would STILL howl through megaphones amplified by rock concert amplifiers that it was “rushed.” That the fix had been in.
So rip off the fucking band-aid and get it over with already.
From the home office in Butt, Fla. –
The top ten reasons trump denies having been an officer –
10. Couldn’t pull over a speeder.
9. Couldn’t get a BJ from a female speeder.
8. When he watched “Officer and a Gentleman” he thought Tom Cruise had multi-personalities.
7. He’s neither an officer or a gentleman.
6. Officers are not supposed to hang out with non-officers but he palled around with low-lifes.
5. It’s a three syllable word and he doesn’t do them.
4. He spells it “offisir.”
3. Putin told him to be a dictator if he won the election.
2. Referred to the WH oval office as a lair.
1. Jervanka was the President.