A large part of one’s progressive bona fides is the belief no respect can be given even for conservatives who have been “never Trumpers” right from the start. Their previous views and writing over the last three decades made Trump inevitable. I do not disagree that they contributed to Trump’s rise. I do not agree we cannot afford some respect to those who have been never Trumpers from the start.
Perhaps it is my incessant belief in people’s better angels, perhaps it is my naivety, but I just cannot internalize it.
I think those who have been never Trumpers right from the start represent an admirable “psychotic break” into reality. Joe Scarbarough went from being a flame throwing far right-winger to being damn near a moderate. True, he was desperate to get into bed with Mika and she wasn’t about to let that happen with a flame throwing, Trump supporting, right winger. Joe moderated his views long before Trump, again, perhaps Mika caused it. But, I think it matters that it was Joe who came to the middle, not Mika.
Watch Nicole Wallace some time on her own show or Rachel’s show. One can viscerally see and feel that Nicole is charging left despite herself. She has hated Trump from the beginning. My view on Wallace has nothing to do with the fact that I’ve got a raging crush on her now that she’s moderated.
The Right Wing is a cult and had been long before Trump. People who declared themselves “never Trumpers” from the start have slowly become … well, people.
So, to me it actually does matter when a person goes from always Republican to never Trumper, and then from being a never Trumper to a “Never support people who support Trump..” So, having established that we, opps, I meant “I,” can grant some respect to those who have agreed with me about Trump from the start, let’s read her words: From the Washington Post via Daily Kos (which lacks my genius analysis, pffft)
For decades now, Republicans have insisted mass murders with semiautomatic weapons are not reflective of a gun problem. I can no longer comprehend how such a ludicrous assertion is remotely acceptable. But in one sense they are right: It’s not merely Republicans’ indulgence of the National Rifle Association that puts Americans’ lives in jeopardy. It is the support and enabling of a president that inspires white nationalist terrorists – and even denies white nationalism is a problem.
Please proceed Jen, even if we definitely don’t get the “no longer” support any Trump supporter part, but anyway:
In sum, we are awash in hate crimes and white nationalist-inspired mass murders. We have a president whose words inspire and bolster perpetrators of these heinous acts. That makes Trump not only a moral abomination, which no policy outcome can offset, but a threat to national security. Those encouraged by his words in recent years kill more Americans than Islamist terrorists.
If that is not justification for bipartisan repudiation of this president and removal from office at the earliest possible moment I don’t know what is. Those who countenance and support this president for his white-grievance mongering are not merely “deplorable” but dangerous.
Okay, wait. That is rather impressive. A Republican calling to remove Trump purely on the basis of his race baiting (technically not a crime), is impressive to me because that doesn’t necessarily go hand in hand with being a never Trumper from the start.
Shout out, Jenny.
I will not state (unlike some on Dkos) that Trump was and is the direct cause of this weekend’s hate-infused attacks. That certainly is not some bow to the right-wing, just the opposite, actually. We have had mass killings inspired by the right for quite some time now, many prior to Trump.
We only know that Trump makes it more likely that people will go on sick rampages. And, again, that is sufficient to support removal from office.
If we are ever going to go back to some sort of “normalcy” in this nation, it is necessarily going to involve some embrace toward moderate conservatives, and I propose it begin and end with the never-Trumpers. Because, as even Jennifer Rubin notes, “we” can no longer tolerate Trump supporters, and I will add, “ever again.”
Peace, y’all.
Jason
Even though I ceased being a person of faith decades ago I still believe that forgiving someone for past actions is possible – provided they have truly changed AND acknowledge what they did.
And that’s the rub with so many of these outspoken “Never Trump” folks. Take ole Morning Joe for example. He still identifies as a conservative and openly laments the possibility of a Democratic Party taking a leftward turn. To be fair I don’t think he’s the type of racist that so openly participates in the modern GOP but, and this is a big but he knew (as a son of the south) damn well about his former Party’s “southern strategy” and all the dog-whistle politics it systematically employed for most of my life to attain and hold on to power. IOW he might not have thought or behaved in a racist manner in his personal life but he willingly teamed up with a political Party he knew was exploiting race & correct me if I’m wrong but he didn’t speak out about it back when he was in Congress.
Or since.
That’s my problem with so many of these folks. I happen to think an acknowledgement and apology for not actively working to change the standard practice of racial dog-whistle politics all those decades needs to happen for me to truly forgive these folks. I can live with them still having conservative philosophies on many issues. I don’t have to agree with them, just accept that they can reasonably hold views I disagree with as long as they afford me the same courtesy. However trying to gloss over the fact they were once part of the problem and that if they didn’t take active part they were quite happy to accept the benefits received from their Party, many of which could not have been bestowed absent all that racial dog-whistling is something I can’t get past.
I’ve said before (multiple times) that one of the main reasons the GOP establishment was horrified as Trump bulldozed his way through the primaries was his refusal to follow the GOP playbook and speak “in code” on the racial & even nationalistic stuff. He was bluntly shouting out all the stuff they’d worked so hard to subliminally (with a great deal of success btw) to plant in people’s minds! Alas, when they had the chance to stop him their hatred of all things Clinton (who would have governed well but as a centrist) overrode their judgement. I think they rationalized the hell out of Trump, figuring that they could control him to some degree even though anyone looking objectively could see how he became increasingly emboldened as the primary and then general election campaign progressed. I’d sure as hell like some of whatever drugs they were taking to kid themselves into thinking that once Trump was inaugurated he’d become “Presidential.” And that aptly named “American Carnage” inaugural speech should have right then and there had the GOP establishment start working to gather what they’d need to invoke the 25th, and since then for both the good of their Party but also the country and the world they SHOULD have sat down with Democrats and worked out a plan for impeachment and conviction before he could do the lasting damage he’s done to international relations.
November 2018 showed them how much they had deluded themselves, not to mention a host of state level races where their candidates lost to Democrats in ruby red places around the country. Now? Their only hope is that Russia (and others) intervene on a massive scale to include changing vote totals on election day to win at not just the federal level but in everything but the most bright red states. The lack of noise (including privately to reporters) about McConnell holding up election security tells me that’s exactly the strategy now. It remains to be seen if it will work.
But getting back to the main subject. I do believe that some of these Never Trumpers have moderated their views some. However I also believe that if the GOP had shoved him out in favor of Pence they’d be sounding a LOT more Republican/Conservative in their punditry. They’d be rationalizing the continued dog whistle politics the GOP has practiced since Barry Goldwater started it and Nixon amped it up into an organized strategy that’s been periodically updated with Reagan and the Bush Presidencies. So I’ll take their help in the moment but I won’t fully accept any of the Never Trumpers until they’ve renounced the old GOP racial dog whistle playbook enough times that they will never be welcome back in the modern GOP.
I think calling for his removal based on race baiting is pretty well a renouncement of even old Repub dog whistles. True, it is better if they state it, but that is a long way for them.
I see forgiveness as a discussion for times when we’re not staring down the bad end of an existential threat. The only question we should ask ourselves is this: do I trust this person to have my back so I can deal with this mess good and proper right now? It’s simple pragmatism…you don’t deal with the right now, later won’t matter at all.
I agree some pragmatism is called for – especially in these times. Trust is something that is earned, and significant trust comes in stages. I’ve moved past the old “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” stage in some cases although not all the way to a high level of trust. However as you say there’s enough trust to count on them through November 2020. OTOH with some of these folks they are squarely only in “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” category. IF it suits them they will go and do more harm than good – Steve Schmidt being a good example. I admit to reveling in his savage takedowns of Trump and the GOP but there was always that conservative part of him lurking who was/is firmly opposed to Democrat’s economic agenda. Sure enough when Howard Schulz beckoned Schmidt jumped at the chance (and I suspect the larger salary than he was getting as a pundit) to go work for that P.O.S. who’s ego might yet prompt him to mount a third Party campaign that could do a Ralph Nader in some key states.
So, when it comes to trust I will think of it like parents back in my small town did (I found out after high school they almost always knew ahead of time where every beer bash was taking place! – that’s a longer story) which is trust but monitor and be ready to step-in/intervene.
Got a better Arabic saying (which “enemy of my enemy” is also) for our current situation that fits: “Me against my brother, my brother against my cousin, my cousin and I against the stranger.”
Your view on Rubin is my own, Jason. Whatever else she did that got us here, she’s been consistently against Trump and his ilk from the start. When this is over, we’ll likely go back to being ideological opponents. But that’s later. Right now, we take our allies where we can get them.
I too have declined to call the Trump cult “deplorables”. I call them the Irredeemables.
I’m going to nitpick your section on Scarborough. Why does it have to be Mika’s sexuality that changed his views? Why not suggest that she’s smarter than he is (obvious) and stronger-willed (also obvious) and far more educated on political issues (obvious x1 million), and that this contributed? Why is a promise of sex the only way she could win him over?
But more on topic, I think how much we blame any given Republican for the rise of Trump needs to have more to do with which bloc in the GOP they belong to than their overall party affiliation. 538 has written that the GOP is five major factions, and they share the blame for Trump for different reasons (in my assessment):
Tea Party and Libertarians:Their disdain for government helped lead to Trump. Both groups want someone who will pitch bombs at every public institution, and that helps lead to an unqualified, demagogic buffoon. Then after Reagan things inevitably went even further south.
Christian conservatives: This group is entirely to blame for Trump. This is a group that should have moral standards, but for forty years have sold out their values for anyone with an R next to their name. Trump embraces 20+ of the 25 qualities Paul lists as human failings. When you label something as moral and Christian with absolutely no justification for doing so, you are going to end up with bad candidates. Authoritarians almost always have to win over corrupt religious groups to rise to power. The “moral majority” was necessary to give us the most immoral presidency in our history.
Moderates and establishment republicans: Rubin and Wallace probably belong to both of these blocs. These coalitions have utterly lost control of the GOP, period. I don’t think their political beliefs directly contributed to Trump’s rise…but we can’t help but criticize the way they helped give power to the people who did. If moderates had drawn a line in the sand on tea party extremism, then maybe they would have lost a few elections but staved off Trumpism.
First of all, it was meant more to bring some humor in a couple days lacking much of any. Second of all, it was far more that Joe was willing to change his views to interest Mika more than she needed someone to do anything. I am sure Mika did just fine without Joe. Again, it was more lighthearted. But, it’s okay in that your underlying point remains valid.
Don’t worry, I was also being humorous. Your comment was mildly sexist, sure, but I always find it funny how out of Joe’s league Mika is. Although…to be honest…if given the choice I’d rather listen to the entire Limp Bizkit discography than sit around the breakfast table with either of them. They are maybe the dullest people I’ve ever seen on TV.
I liked the column. I have always liked Mika and am liking Joe more and more — especially after his soliloquy about “Moscow Mitch” — but I am not sure that I share your enthusiasm for Nicole Wallace. Also, while I appreciate that you have a crush on her, she’s a bit too young for me.
LIght hearted all around. We need a couple of light moments these days.
Kung Fu Tsu ( Confucius) observed over 2 millennia ago that the emperor must set the example for the people. The wise emperor behaves with modesty, propriety, and dignity. The emperor must embrace compassion, generosity, and, kindness. The emperor must act wisely and with thoughtful consideration. Our would-be (naked) emperor is a liar, a cheat, a thief, a racist, a homophobe, a misogynist, and a white nationalist supporter. WTF do you expect from the fecktard but disgusting polarization ( and whiney “it’s not my fault it’s Hillary’s” kind of feeble-minded garbage)?
So nice to see that ancient Chinese philosopher called by his actual name as opposed to the more commonly used Latin one.
I draw on something more recent (and ongoing in lodges throughout the land) which is based on teachings from a different part of the world that also go back thousands of years.
I petitioned my local Masonic Lodge the day after I turned 21 – my father’s gift (I was in college and paying my way through the latter part of school) was my degree fees through Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite and Shrine. Being in college I was quickly able to learn & return my degrees and become a Master Mason (Blue Lodge). While Freemasonry as we know it might only go back a few hundred years it’s roots are ancient going back to before Solomon’s temple. So are many of the teachings. The guy about to become Master asked if I would like a position in the leadership that would put me in the line of succession to become Master and I accepted. I completed my term when I was 26 just before I headed off to become a Marine.
The most humbling experience of my life was being installed, as the words of the Installing Officer from the ritual were recited. It’s a long ritual but at the beginning the IO notes the history of the Office of Master and its ancient origins, and also that it come with high powers and privileges. My ritual book is packed away in a storage unit so if anyone reading this quibbles at the following I apologize if my memory is off:
“The good resolutions you doubtless have formed in your own mind that these powers will not be abused or perverted by you I would gladly strengthen by a word of admonition.
The very consciousness of the possession of a great power will ever make a generous mind cautious and gentle in its exercise. To rule has been the lot of many and requires neither strength of intellect or soundness of judgement. To rule WELL has been the fortune of but few and may well be the object of an honorable ambition.
It is not by the strong arm or the iron will that order and obedience, the requisites of good government are achieved, but by holding the key to the hearts of men.”
There’s a lot in that part alone that has always stayed with me, especially when I’ve been in charge of other people. Sure, the Corps had many lessons on good leadership I could go in to but many of them are encapsulated in the above – maintain a healthy sense of caution about the power one wields and learn what those you lead want and need to properly help and lead them. What they want and what they need aren’t always the same thing and therein lies one of the key challenges of good leadership.
There’s more in that ritual that’s stayed with me, but one addition part I’ll highlight is that like an elected leader (say a President) is still a citizen the Master of a Lodge is an individual Mason elevated for (only) a time and will again be just another one of the group – and should therefore be interested in the welfare of each and all.
Donald Trump doesn’t believe for a second he’s ever been a “mere” citizen and sure as hell doesn’t think he will one day be one again. With each passing day he seems more and more to believe he will be in Office until the day he dies and that he is in fact above everyone else on the planet and will remain so. He is dangerously drunk on power and deranged. I can only imagine him standing where I once stood at the altar in my Lodge and instead of absorbing the lessons fidgeting until he couldn’t take it any longer and striding up to the Master’s chair and demanding the gavel and the top hat.