Memo to Joe Manchin and every other Senator fighting repeal or even reform (back to what it was until early in Nixon’s first term) of the filibuster:   If you want the power Presidents are granted in the Constitution to approve or reject (veto) stuff passed by Congress then run for and win the Presidency!   Other Senators have done it.   But if you don’t win a Presidential election then accept that YOU Mr. or Ms. individual Senator don’t get to exercise veto power.

The modern version of the filibuster that’s been in use for fifty years now is the functional equivalent of Presidential veto power.  Think I’m crazy?   Really?   Think about what you know about Presidents and their veto power.   Ok, so the word Veto doesn’t appear in the text of the Constitution but that’s the shorthand we all know and use when it comes to President rejecting a matter presented by Congress and sending it back with the reasons it was rejected.   The founders specifically gave this power to the President, and set  steep bar for Congress to override a veto.   They did not give, or even hint at Senators having, much less routinely using (far more than Presidents do) veto power.   I’d ask you to consider how the Legislative Process in Article I, Section 7 is defined and how it’s supposed to work.  There are three clauses in the Constitutional language:

  • First there is the Origination Clause.  Laws and resolutions can begin in either chamber of Congress but the Constitution prescribes that budget and revenue matters must begin in the House.  Although hotly debated this concession was granted to larger, more populous states upset about the disproportionate makeup of the Senate in favor of smaller states.
  • Then we have the Presentment Clause which says any law passed by both chambers must be presented to the President for approval.   As already noted while the word veto doesn’t appear in the Constitution the clause says the President can accept and sign the law or return it to the chamber in which it originated with stated objections.   At that point Congress can either amend the legislation as recommended by the President and “present” it again or override the “rejection” (veto) with a two-thirds vote by each chamber.
  • Finally we have the Presentment of Resolutions Clause, because Madison foresaw the possibility of Congress trying to get around the Presentment Clause via joint or concurring resolutions.   While Congress can in fact pass Joint or Concurring Resolutions and take other actions (adjournment for example) without Presidential approval there are limits placed on what Congress can do without Presidential approval.

It can get complicated at times but what it boils down to is that Congress passes bills or resolutions, after which Presidents are given the power to accept or veto them.   In the latter case Congress has to work pretty hard to either adjust something to get it signed into law or override a President’s veto.   That’s how the system is supposed to work.

It’s not that way anymore, and hasn’t been for a while.

Anyone reading this knows the old Jimmy Stewart performance in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington form of filibuster.   Hell, some readers might be old enough to remember the last notable real time version of the old-school stand on your feet and talk, talk talk to hold the floor when Strom Thurmond tried to derail a Civil Rights bill.   That was the way of things for almost two hundred years.   Hold the floor by continually talking and maybe getting some help from friends via some parliamentary tricks.   It was mostly a method to call attention to something and short-lived although if done at the right time when other pressing business needed to be taken care of it could force some compromise.

However, roughly fifty years ago then Majority Leader Mike Mansfield (a Democrat!) engineered not only the end of the talking filibuster, but (in my opinion even worse) the “dual track” procedure that allowed other business to go on as usual while a Senator(s) had a “hold” on a given matter.   No more having to stand there battling fatigue, hunger and dehydration to hold the floor as all other business ground to a halt.   From where I sit, which is the perspective of an ordinary citizen Senators decided they were special, and far too grand and important to have to subject themselves to the indignities of hoarse speech from continual talking, the indignity of the issue of having to pee or take a dump, or even passing out from fatigue.   So, assuming (Hah!  Talk about naive, wishful thinking!) it would only rarely be used they created a non-talking filibuster and while they were at it one that didn’t hold up other business as one of them made some point of holding up this or that matter.

That was the theory.   In the real world and steadily over time “holds” (filibusters) become not only more common but a political weapon.   A weapon that if not a nuke is close, but as easily used as an infantryman’s rifle.

Any Senator can, and for any reason no matter how justified (like trying to keep a rapist/would-be rapist off SCOTUS for example) or downright petty (so and so was mean to me with a tweet) stop a piece of Senate business in its tracks.   And force those who want that matter to see it get a final vote on the floor to muster sixty Senators to invoke cloture and get that final vote.   That’s become next to impossible.  Even when time is of the essence, and the national well-being or even National Security is at stake!    All a Senator has to do is raise their formal objection and that’s that.   Again, that was never the intent of the founders.   It was rather an increasingly inflated sense of self-importance on the part of Senators that each of them should hold that kind of power.   Having outsized influence over the legislative process, including the intended built in protections of extra minority influence since each state is allocated two Senators even if they have less people than some Congressional districts apparently wasn’t and still isn’t enough.

Although he’s not the only one in the Democratic Party opposed to eliminating or reforming the filibuster once again my former Gov./Senator Joe Manchin is showing his ass and reveling with his drunken power yet again.    He just loves being the center of attention.   Maybe he even harbors Trumpian delusions of grandeur as in having the spotlight shining brightly on him.   If so perhaps someone should warn him to be careful what you ask for.  However ole Joe Manchild playing Mister Big Shot and holding everything hostage by threatening to oppose any changes to it is only the latest symptom of the long out-of-control problem of abuse of the Senate filibuster.   I don’t need to detail just how out of whack things have gotten, since I can assume anyone reading this already knows it.   Oh, and let’s not kid ourselves about the fact that if the roles were reversed there would be plenty of Republican Senators clamoring to end the filibuster while some insisted on preserving it.

The self-professed “World’s Greatest Deliberative Body” (I write in quotes hoping you’ll take it with every bit of contempt and derision you can imagine me having – and it’s a LOT!) has been made up mostly of old guys and almost exclusively so. (Old WHITE guys I might add) Yes, there are more women nowdays, and even a handful of non-white folks as well as some under sixty years old.   But take a look at a group photo of the Senate or the Senate in session (when they are all present) and it’s clear there’s a ways to go.   Anyway, it’s been clear for too long that the Senate is decidedly not a deliberative body, much less the world’s greatest one.   It’s devolved into an institution where every single member has the ability, for any reason (whether good or bad) hold veto power over every matter that comes before it.   Reducing the number of votes from two-thirds (67) to sixty for cloture allowing a final vote yes or no on a law or resolution doesn’t change the fact that it’s every bit as difficult most of the time to achieve as overriding a Presidential veto.

Once again I say those who wrote and ratified our Constitution never intended individual Senators to have that kind of power.

Sadly, Senatorial ego grew out of control.   This whole notion that ONE single Senator could stop a piece of legislation or a confirmation in its tracks by simply formally registering an objection and forcing a cloture vote appealed to their vanity.   It still does and too many are dug in like ticks fighting to hold outsized power.   Power that was never granted or even hinted at in the Constitution.   Presidents were given the veto, Senators and Representatives were given individual votes on bills or resolutions – NOT a form of a pre-emptive Presidential veto.   I don’t think individual Senators should have a power that was granted specifically to and ONLY to Presidents.   Do you?

I think that should be the message to any Senator resisting eliminating, or at least reforming the filibuster back to before the reforms of fifty years ago.   That the filibuster has become the equivalent of a Presidential veto and if YOU Mr. or Ms. Senator want Presidential power then run for and win the Presidency!   Absent that sit down, STFU and accept your still lofty place in our system of government and allow the system to work the way it was designed to do.

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15 COMMENTS

  1. I can actually understand the treat of a Republican majority, and a Republican President could do in just two years unabated by the need for 60 votes. Think of what damage the previous administration could have done in just two years.

    What I can’t understand is Manchin’s opposition to the voting rights bill. Then I think of the constituency he’s pandering to….old Dixiecrats (see clerk Kim Davis) who are waking to the fact that they are really Republicans thanks to the infusement of the Internet.

    I had wondered what exactly separated Ol’ Joe from the Republicans, and here lies the answer.

    The Republicans as a whole have no idea what they are doing or trying to do and will vote the party line as told to do…….Joe only votes for issues that benefit Joe, the party be damned.

    • I agree with Denis’ basic implied premise that a vote to simply end debate should not be more significant or require more bipartisan support than the piece of legislation. I also agree with you that any rule change that assumes good faith of the part of the GOP is likely to be regretted when the cycle returns the majority to the GOP.

      In general terms, opposition to a specific bill is not equal to opposition to the stated goals of the bill. Manchin is not my senator. However, I am interested in the ground of his opposition to the bill. We do not have to speculate or draw conclusions from MSM reporting of his opposition. We can read a primary source. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/opinion/op_ed_commentaries/joe-manchin-why-im-voting-against-the-for-the-people-act/article_c7eb2551-a500-5f77-aa37-2e42d0af870f.html

      “The right to vote is fundamental to our American democracy and protecting that right should not be about party or politics. Least of all, protecting this right, which is a value I share, should never be done in a partisan manner.”
      So Manchin supports the stated goal of the bill.

      Today’s debate about how to best protect our right to vote and to hold elections, however, is not about finding common ground, but seeking partisan advantage. Whether it is state laws that seek to needlessly restrict voting or politicians who ignore the need to secure our elections, partisan policymaking won’t instill confidence in our democracy — it will destroy it.”

      Here he implies the allegation that even though it is well understood that GOP states have passed laws to give the GOP electoral advantage, the Dems are doing a similar thing with this bill—seeking to give Dems electoral advantage. He further implies that Republicans like Romney who oppose this specific bill may be doing so precisely because it confers advantage to the Dems. So the real question is whether he can substantiate his implied allegation. Unfortunately he does not directly address this question. He reviews the recent history of GOP opposition to the filibuster and the Dem response.

      He then discusses the Voting Rights Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, both of which he claims have wide bipartisan support. He seems to imply that those two acts together will be more than sufficient. So what we need is a neutral analysis that compares the three acts. Manchin could well be correct, but at this point I do not know.

      Accusing him of pandering to the Dixiecrats is a type of ad hominem that evades addressing Manchin’s actual argument.

      • Manchin’s actual argument doesn’t make any sense in the light of actual circumstances, so there’s no point wasting too much time analyzing it. It’s just empty verbiage.
        https://theweek.com/articles/976264/joe-manchins-filibuster-argument-makes-no-sense

        “He then discusses the Voting Rights Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, both of which he claims have wide bipartisan support. He seems to imply that those two acts together will be more than sufficient.”

        First of all, he just declared yesterday that the For the People Act (Voting Rights Act) is not even getting his own vote, and he doesn’t explain why he’s opposed to it other than that the Republicans don’t like it. Which is serious when almost every other Democrat in Congress knows it is urgently needed to preserve democracy, given what the Republicans are doing to voting rights in statehouses around the country.

        As for the John Lewis Act, Manchin says he does support it, but he knows as well as everybody else that because of the filibuster there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of it passinf. And he upholds the filibuster like it was the bedrock of our Constitution, when it isn’t even in the Constitution. In other words, he’s talking nonsense, and nobody should waste time over his actual words. Just look at his actions and their effects, as Dennis has done.

        • Manchin is not the only one making the argument that HR. 1 is a bad piece of legislation. Is that the argument you want to dismiss “in light of circumstances”?

          From Bulwark writers: https://thebulwark.com/hr1-for-dummies/
          and https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/whats-wrong-with-hr-1

          Manchin said the problem with HR. 1 is that it tries to confer electoral advantage upon Dem. If your point is that he does not explain specifically the HR 1 confers that advantage, you are correct.

          (HR1 is not the “voting rights act” he was referring to) You will see that if you read his oped–the one published yesterday. The oped from “the Week” has bearing on Manchin’s filibuster arguments. It of course is not addressing the HR 1 arguments Manchin made yesterday).

          • OK, from the second of your two links I’m beginning to understand what you’re getting at. The NY Times lead editorial said something along these lines a few days ago. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/opinion/voting-law-rights-congress.html
            But that was the first I had ever seen this point raised, except for something I read a couple of days earlier saying maybe that it was kind of a wish list and maybe some provisions in it were not as essential as others.
            It may be that H.R.1 is not the best possible bill for the circumstances. The times op-ed editorial even says that it fails to protect against some of the things the GOP is now trying to legislate in the statehouses. But as you say, Manchin has not explained this in any coherent way. And when McConnell announces that he’s going to work 100% against Biden’s agenda (which we already saw him do with Obama), and with his own party proposing and passing laws restricting voting rights in the state houses, that definitely sounds like the Republicans intend to wield the filibuster to prevent any kind of voting rights bill from passing, not to mention the rest of the program Biden was elected by a big majority to enact.

            And Manchin is doing his best to make sure that happens. Have you heard Manchin make any statement as to how H.R.1 (For the People Act) could be improved? “He does not offer a single genuine critique of the For the People Act. If Manchin expressed strong opposition to any of its major provisions—automatic voter registration, same-day voter registration, stricter campaign-finance disclosure rules, strengthened ethics rules for the White House and the Supreme Court, and a ban on gerrymandering, to name a few—then his position would be more intellectually defensible. But his only stated rationale for opposing it is that Republicans also oppose it.” (Matt Ford, “Joe Manchin Inches Closer to Trump’s Big Lie”).

        • The topic is Manchin’s HR1 argument which the oped from “The Week” does not address, not his filibuster argument. If you read Manchin’s actual oped from yesterday, you will see that the Voting Rights Act and the For the People Act are two different things. He said he opposed HR 1 because it confers electoral advantages upon Dems. If your point is that Manchin failed to explain specifically how HR1 does that, I agree.

          However, other analysts have looked into it. Here is the Bulwark: https://thebulwark.com/hr1-for-dummies/

          and https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/whats-wrong-with-hr-1

          Of course something is urgently needed. Manchin’s question appears to be why does it have to be HR1? Why not reauthorize the Voting Rights Act and pass the John Lewis Act. Are those two measures not sufficient? Manchin claims there is bipartisan support for the John Lewis Act. If that support fails to materialize when the vote is taken, the measure will pass even if Harris has to break a tie, right?

        • Please read Manchin’s oped itself, and not reporting about it or quotes from it (even my quotes). You will see that the Voting Rights Act which Manchin supports, and the For the People Act which he opposes are two different things. Then we can talk.

          • I know that, and I knew it when I wrote the comment. I just misunderstood what you meant by the “Voting Rights Act”, since you distinguish it from the “John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act,”
            but you also talk about both of these as having “wide bipartisan support,” and you say here that Manchin supports the “Voting Rights Act.” But the “Voting Rights Act,” (as distinct from the John Lewis VRA Act), is established law, it was passed by Congress and signed by LBJ in 1965. — The “For the People Act” is also a voting rights act, and Manchin said yesterday he doesn’t support it. If you re-read my comment with all this in mind I think you’ll see it makes sense. And I repeat, my main point is that Manchin’s support of one and rejection of the other is all a subterfuge, because he knows that without filibuster refrom, none of Biden’s signature program is going to pass, and he has made it clear multiple times that he is againt filibuster reform.

        • I m not the one who claimed bipartisan for both—that was Manchin. Manchin also specifically says that THE Voting Rights Act (as distinguished from “a voting rights act”) has bipartisan support for its reauthorization. So can something that needs to be reauthorized on a regular basis be considered established law? Usually, the thing about established law is that it does not need reauthorization to stay in force. In addition, we know that a valuable feature of the law was gutted, allowing certain states to enact voter suppression measures at will. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/supreme-court-pulls-teeth-voting-rights-act/

          It makes no sense to argue that since the GOP will block both the John Lewis Act and HR1, therefore we must kill the fillibuster to go ahead and pass what some analyst consider the flawed one. https://thebulwark.com/hr1-for-dummies/ and https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/whats-wrong-with-hr-1

          We should be wary of political action for short-term gain. why did the filibuster become a thing in the first place? why was it modified? what were the effects? How would the GOP maliciously take advantage of the lack of filibuster? Is that an acceptable risk? I think Manchin knows full well that the filibuster has no constitutional force. I think he is trying to avoid short-sightedness and look at the big picture, especially the inevitable future wherein the power cycle returns the majority to the GOP. Is lack of filibuster really a tool the Dems want to give the current authoritarian iteration of the GOP?

  2. WOW Denis, you have demonstrated the individual flash of super power felt by the Senate in general … the, “weapon of choice”, when trying to hold back the demon’s of the opposing party …
    However, the randomness of the Senate’s power, comes with majority rules and we are at a precarious balance of party dominance and a corrupted, unsettled GOP is STILL monkey wrenching votes because of needed handfuls of Republican’s votes to secure resolutions.

    It seems like the putrid performance of McConnell and others has gone dark and there MUST be some secret meetings in the bowels of that old abandoned country barn, doing their candlelight-lit calls for unity against Biden at any cost …

    The voting rights of the people should be sacred and protected, the actions of the GOP in general, show the swing to complete lunacy and disarray, they have NOTHING for the people now, a scary position of doom for their party and a huge waste of time against the collapse of Earth’s survival …

    Your rant against these bastards of personal power makes it clear the Senate better get its act together or the whole of Congress may disqualify itself …

  3. Your point is well-taken. However, the paragraph on Manchin’s motivations is pure speculation. It adds nothing except to express Dem frustration with Manchin (even as we admire Cheney and Romney for largely the same thing, straying from the stated party line).

    • I lived in WV (eastern panhandle)for over ten years after dropping out of the beltway rat-race. I voted for Manchin several times, not because I liked or respected him but at least he was a Democrat (albeit closer to being one of those blue-dogs that switched Parties during the great transition decades ago) and better than his GOP opponents although that wasn’t exactly a high bar to clear. Having lived my first 26 years in Illinois I know all about corruption in state politics and slimeballs getting elected to high office. But at least most govt. services in Illinois worked back then. I wouldn’t find out just how fucked up WV was until I got back into social services work some years after moving there. Manchin was of course a player in all that. His own family history is cloudy, with him at one time being sued by his brother and then of course his daughter who’s a true chip off the old turd. If you don’t recall daughter Heather was the top dog at Mylan that set up the market for the wider sales of Epi Pens, then when her company got the full rights to it jacked up the price from a hundred bucks for a two-pack to over six hundred! Then there was the controversy about her claiming and MBA from West Virginia University which was a lie. So some calls were made (and I remind you Joe was Gov. at the time) and she was awarded an EMBA even though she’d only completed about half the credits. Well, that blew up too and WVU wound up rescinding it and a couple of folks over at the university had to resign.

      So I hope that provides you with some context besides his records on numerous issues as to why I’m less than impressed by Manchin. Better than any Republican from WV would be isn’t exactly something to celebrate. However, you are correct in noting my take that he craves the limelight and the status of being a Senator too much as speculation. However, absent that status (Senator) he wouldn’t be shit in WV or anywhere else and he knows it. It’s a fucked up state (which he helped make that way and keep that way) and the only thing he’s got going for him is being a Senator. The only reason he’s gotten re-elected is his support of coal and if he’s not on Capitol Hill fighting for coal to be king again (or at least have a major role in our energy policy) then the transactional relationship he’s had with WV voters will be as dead as coal. If he’s of no more use with political influence then not only will rank and file voters drop him like a smelly turd, so will the movers and shakers in WV. He will be not just forgotten but actively ignored, so he NEEDS (my opinion) that status as Senator and if that means fucking the Democratic Party and voters in every other state then by god that’s what he will do.

      I can also say that Manchin knows his voters. So do I. I lived my first 26 years deep in southern Illinois and when I moved to WV it felt like I’d moved back home. Both places are filled with cut off their nose to spite their face people who love Manchin “owning the liberals” so I think I’m on pretty solid footing when I say he plays his games as much if not more on principle but to play to his voters. The more attention he gets for fucking over the Democratic Party the better his chances of getting another term in 2024. Like Byrd before him he intends to die holding that seat.

      So, even though you might disagree I’ll stand by my contention that Manchin periodically seeks out the spotlight with his stunts. He knows goddamn good and well the GOP won’t, if push comes to shove allow the John Lewis Voting Rights Act to become law either. He also knows that it would only take one Trump rally in WV with Trump bashing him to end his career in the Senate. So I’ll stick to my opinion of the guy.

      • I don’t agree or disagree about his motivation. I simply do not think we should speculate, and then run with the speculation as if the mere act of speculating turned it into a conclusion. You have not persuaded me that in general his intent towards Democrats is predictably malicious. Your response sounds like an after-the-fact rationalization for a pre-conclusion.

        Perhaps the GOP would not allow the John Lewis Act to become law either, but that is no reason to pass what according to some analysts is the badly bloated and flawed HR.1. From Bulwark writers: https://thebulwark.com/hr1-for-dummies/

        and https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/whats-wrong-with-hr-1

        We should examine their arguments.

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