This whole blooming scandal regarding at least 7 state GOP’s fraudulently electing slates of electors for the electoral college, and then actually submitting them to the US Senate and the National archives is blowing me away. For two basic reasons.
First is the utter stupidity. There is nothing in electoral law, not the constitution that allows a state to come up with a back up list, just in case. The state certifies the election results, a slate of electors are named for the winner, which are certified and sent on to The Senate and the Archives. There are no alternate slates. It reminds me of that mental midget Kellyanne Conjob, with her alternative facts. Sorry babe, there are facts, and then there’s bullshit. Full stop.
And at least some of them seemed to know they were playing with fire. The bogus slates of electors from New Mexico and Pennsylvania used the same templates and formats as everybody else, but they tried to cover their asses with a cute little caveat at the end. Something like, This is not an official slate of electors. But if there is a challenge to the official slate that is successful, then these would become official electors. Nice try morons. But that’s like forging $100 bills, and in light letters between the serial numbers putting Not legal US tender. You don’t make it look that real if you’re not going to pass it off, and that’s what most lawyers are saying.
But as offensively stupid the plot itself was, what is even more insulting to me is how arrogant these pinheaded shits are! I remember the good old days, when somebody did something criminally stupid, and his lawyer told him, You don’t talk to anybody but ME bout this! Nobody! These pendejo jerk offs are actually booking themselves on national television to talk about how brilliant they were in failure!
On Friday Trump trade dipshit Peter Navarro appeared on The Beat with Ari Melber to brag about his brilliance as the alleged architect of The Green Bay Sweep, or the Blue Day Creep, or whatever. The plan was either a) for Pence to throw the certified electors back to the states, and count the fraudulent electors instead, or b) just have Pence toss the disputed electors back to the states, and throw the thing to the House to decide, where GOP dominance would keep Trump in office. Just one problem. It’s unconstitutional, and as illegal as hell. Pence doesn’t have that power.
And after Navarro made a fool of himself, Trump mouthpiece Boris Epshteyn took a turn in the batting cage. And like Navarro, swing for nothing but air. Epshteyn actually admitted on the air that he had not only supervised, but taken part in calls from the Trump campaign to state GOP reps to try to get them to go along with the scam. His justification was that this was legal because they had legal opinion that it wasn’t illegal, since the courts had never ruled on the issue, and besides, Trump senior counsel Rudy Giuliani gave it the go ahead. Yeah. The same Giuliani that invoked the name of Hugo Chavez in massive US election fraud.
This is insane! From where I’m sitting, these people are playing the closest thing with legal Russian Roulette that I’ve ever seen. Their proud and arrogant defense is that because no US court has ever ruled on the legality of fraudulent electoral college slates, somehow it isn’t illegal. But the last time I checked, falsifying any state or federal electoral form is a crime, and comes with a hefty payback. I’m no lawyer, but even to me this seems to be an untenable defense.
So, why use it? And even more, why lead with your chin by flaunting such a weak and pathetic defense? There’s only one reason I can think of. Arrogance. These silly bastards have actually drunk the Kool-Ade. They are going to run the Trump playbook. Delay and obfuscate, obfuscate and delay. Drag every motion out in court for years, and run out the clock. Because these quibbledicks actually beliece that the GOP is going to at least retake the House in 2022, and Trump will win in 2024. And when he takes the oath, their troubles magically go away, and they immediately become Heroes of the Cause.
Look, if you have another idea, that’s what the comments are for. But for the life of me, I can’t see any other scenario in which apparently intelligent people proudly tie themselves to a course of conduct that could land them decades in prison. They look at Trump, and see two words. Golden. Parachute. But if they’re wrong, then God have mercy on their souls.
This is a weeks old story by now. I for one am furious about WTF is taking so long to file charges (both state and federal) on Every Single One of these assholes who submitted their names ILLEGALLY as electors. I get that taking a week to double check the fine print on the relevant statute(s) and drafting a tight set of charges might be necessary but come on! Ok, so some might use the “let’s see if we can get them to trade up as in reduce charges against them for evidence against higher ups.” I still don’t get it.
First of all most of them won’t have anything to trade. My bet is that most of them were dumbasses that got caught up in the moment and said “sure” when asked to take part. Or even upon hearing what was in the works volunteered! But the bottom line is that they took active part in election fraud, AND there are literal receipts to prove it!
The sooner their asses are hauled into court the better. As for the whole trading up or potential additional charges, I call bullshit. There are countless criminals who have either had new/additional charges filed while facing one set or after having been convicted. The sooner these people are sitting in jail cells the better. There are simple, straightforward cases to make that should lead to quick convictions. Normally defendants try to drag things out but one thing we’ve seen is a tendency from an increasing number of judges to not want to put up with any bullshit from these people or their lawyers. The only thing most of them have to trade is time off their sentence for pleading guilty (and quickly) to spare the taxpayers the expense of a trial. By summer a shitload of them should be in prison. THAT will send a helluva message.
And as I said, if some of the organizers in these various states have information to trade let them do it from inside a jail cell awaiting trial. That should focus their minds!
This is your thirst for revenge doing your thinking, which makes me rather glad someone ELSE is in charge of these decisions. Try this one for size: if these idiots ARE dumb enough to reveal all this voluntarily, what ELSE can be gotten for nothing by letting them run their mouth? The charges will still be there when the Feds decide they’ve waited long enough.
It was never going to be enough to just bust these people. If you actually want this country’s institutions to survive, solid precedents have to be laid down when examples are made of the plotters. And the frankly stupid calls of “fight fire with more fire” proves the right-wingers’ theory about us to everyone else on the fence. To wit, we only believe in “rule of law” when it gives what WE want. We say we’re better than that theory quite often…but now’s the time we prove or disprove that notion.
Revenge, retribution, “accountability” – whatever term you or others might wish to apply would I guess be fair. It’s been a year since the riotous KKKoo de Trump and few have been held accountable legally to date. I get that under the best of circumstances building cases against some of the people who took part is a painstaking process, and since the assault on the Capitol was an assault on a federal process on federal ground almost all the charges can only be held at the federal level meaning double jeopardy is applied in the strictest sense of the concept. IOW, no someone getting off on (for example) something like the Arbury murder at the state level but being liable (even though acquitted on state murder charges) at the federal level for civil rights crimes. I get it. I also get the value of trading little fish for big fish.
We are a YEAR into this, and the actions in question took place over a year ago. Proving intent is often the key factor in obtaining convictions on certain types of crimes. I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think that’s a problem here. Nor is providing actual records of the crimes, along with evidence it was part of a larger scheme since the template for these slates of bogus electors was provided to them. As for ignorance of the law, this is where so many (including me) get pissed off. I don’t think any reasonable person for one second believes these goobers were somehow ignorant of the fact that what they were doing was contrary to their state’s (and the federal government’s) long established laws and procedures. But even granting them that “ignorance” many a regular person (as in not someone politically connected enough to qualify as an elector bogus or legitimate) has been told countess times by a judge that ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Getting back to another point, some cases are complex and some are simple. Some MAGA goober can claim (as so many have) that they simply went along with the crowd to the Capitol because they were unhappy about the election results and genuinely believed Trump had been cheated. And didn’t take part in (or even really see since they were far enough back in the crowd) the violence of the actual breaches of the barriers and then the Capitol itself and just walked around inside the Capitol but didn’t personally do any damage or issue any threats. I call bullshit on that but it’s worked for a lot of them, even though we all know damned well that had it been say BLM that held a massive protest because the legitimate slates of electoral votes hadn’t been submitted and the bogus ones were going to be presented to the Joint Session things would have played out very, very differently. Even if such a mass of protesters had done what the MAGA goobers did they’d have been met by a wall of National Guard and federal LE and beaten to a pulp, then arraigned and held without bail on more serious charges than most of the Jan. 6 “tourists” have faced!
There is nothing in the law that prevents charges from being reduced or withdrawn if someone provides meaningful cooperation with authorities. We also see a continuation of the seditious thinking and action that led to Jan. 6 continuing. And we have a crucial election coming up in November, one in which some GOP legislatures have literally set themselves up to step in and overturn results they don’t like – specifically Democrats winning various races in their states! So yes, I think some high level (as in for high level people in these states – as I said most of them have “juice” or they wouldn’t be bogus electors in the first place) is called for and called for now.
The laws in question are pretty straightforward. Most lay people can understand the language in them. And there are those bogus certificates claiming to be electoral votes which were actually sent in! Res Ispa Loquitor (the thing speaks for itself) is most common in civil trials (negligence causing accidents or injury, or medical malpractice) but the concept applies to a number of torts including abuse of process and this sure as hell was abuse of the electoral process. In addition, the legal weight of this concept (rooted in common law) does in fact also apply to criminal acts even if it’s not commonly used in such cases.
I don’t see what I advocate so much as fighting fire with fire, but giving a bully who is used to getting their way a punch in the mouth and putting it on YouTube as an example – both to those that have been hesitant to stand up to entitled bullies who believe consequences will never apply to them as well as other bullies that their shit is going to cost them. I believe this is a matter in which a message can and should be sent loud and clear so that those who STILL believe in the end they can carry on with their bullshit “Trump/We wuz robbed” stuff and not only NOT pay a price but get away with ever more of their bullshit will stop and think twice about continuing what they have done and are doing.
I’m with you delliott. It’s been a year and these folks will continue to twist laws and facts until someone is held accountable.
revenge or consequences for actions?
They believe they, along with their leader, are above the law. Clearly. Until the law places them in a cell, they are essentially correct. Double secret probation didn’t cut it at Farber College & isn’t cutting it here. A federal grand jury supena can’t be ignored or pissed on. Hey merrick. Time to stop being a nice Jewish boy who went to law school & realize fascism is knocking on UR PHUCKING DOOR.
Unlike you, Garland has to also take into account what kind of institutions he still wants standing when this process is finished. So excuse me if I find the current level of panic a sign of immaturity from a lot of people who are WAY old enough to know…better.
If he keeps stalling…don’t worry about the supposed ‘institutions’. You mean the same ones that let Nixon walk? Reagan? Bushes? Trump? Or are u talking about some REAL institutions? They had democratic ‘institutions’ in prewar Germany. They replaced them with death camps.
Agree with you completely.
Too, they seem shocked when people don’t see the logic in what they are doing.
You should do a post noting the similarities between this behaviour and what happened back in the 1930’s with the Pecora Commission.
Then it was Wall Street, and now it’s the Republicans, but what you have in both cases is a rock-solid assumption that the perpetrators will NOT be punished.
This is playing Russian Roulette with all six cylinders loaded. It doesn’t take a genius, mathematically or otherwise, to work out how it won’t end with a misfire.
And what will u say if they keep stalling & the gop takes the house & ends the investigation? WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME. I’m over 68 & have seen Nixon walk. Reagan walk. Bush 1&2 walk. Trump walk on 2 clear traitorous actions that got him impeached. Not to mention the minor players in crimes like barr, Kavanaugh, dick Cheney etc. So to say we’re overreacting is pure bullshit. It won’t be long b4 election talking points will be the democrats are on witch hunts to steal the election. November is rolling up fast. IF WE LOSE THE HOUSE BE SURE TO SHOW UP TO SAY ITS ALL OVERREACTING. Too bad Europe didn’t overreact in the 30s & stop fascism b4 it destroyed Europe. I’m sure they had people saying what ur saying now…until they either got the hell out or became subjects of the Reich.
Strange no Libs were outraged at all the Constitutional violations and flurry of last days activity by Governors, Attorney Generals, and non- legislators in rushing thru changes to Federal election laws.. They must have thought if it wasn’t expressly forbidden, it must be legal. That’s precisely why so many distrust election results. And, God forbid anyone should have to provide identification or vote in person.
none of the pandemic related rules were unconstitutional. And FIVE states already do entirely mail-in voting, and find it more secure, simpler, and more cost-effective than the old-fashioned stand-in-line setup.
So these people clearly think they are above the law, that the DOJ and State law enforcement won’t dare to touch them. And you know what? They are right. In the same way no German cop would dream of arresting brown shifted storm troopers breaking Jewish windows and beating up rabbis in 1935, the DOJ won’t dare charge Trumpists with forging a few documents or attempting a coup. As Garland has said, you can’t be too hard on them because they might get upset.
Face it: the law is finished in the United States. It’s over. Best to prepare for Trump’s second, permanent term. Because there is no way to stop it now.
The ‘law’ has been on shaky ground starting with genocide of native Americans, taking their land, destroying their culture, & creating paperwork,(the law), justifying this evil. Then to top it off, go to Africa, kidnap& enslave people to work the land you stole. Keep them enslaved TO THIS VERY DAY IN ESSENCE, & of course, justify it in the constitution(more paperwork). Have ‘rules/laws’ that subjugate masses who don’t comply with ur values,(cannabis prohibition by etoh drinkers & cigarette smokers; men deciding what WOMEN can do with their body).Oh, & make sure the rich never go to jail & that the poor do so u can imprison more citizens than Russia & China combined. So on & so on…it goes. The law is both our hope but also the cancer on the body politic as it is practiced. It has NO INTRINSIC MORALITY.!!!!
I can’t figure out why Congress didn’t send capital police to arrest Bannon and Meadows (and all the others thinking they are entitled to thumb their noses at the law) and hold them in a cell until they testify. The Supreme Court has already ruled congress has that power.
I am also of the mind that the arrogant state officials ARE well aware they will NEVER be held accountable, nor will any of the criminals that were part of the Trump regime. The GOP will retake the house in 2022 and Jim Jordan will manage to hold tribunal after tribunal because HIS tribunals will some how be legit. Like how there were 4 Benghazi investigations and Hillary actually showed up and testified under oath for 18 hours. The GOP are RULERS, they intend to rule and their brain dead supporters will continue to support them even when their children are dying of malnutrition and they have to engage in gunfire to get a loaf of moldy bread.